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Every cookbook has a story.

 

Via Carota | Jody Williams & Rita Sodi

Via Carota | Jody Williams & Rita Sodi

Intro:                            Welcome to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City, sitting at her dining room table, talking to cookbook authors.

Rita Sodi:                      I'm Rita Sodi.

Jody Williams:               And I'm Jody Williams and I'm sitting next to Rita Sodi, and we're here to talk about our Via Carota cookbook.

Suzy Chase:                   What a thrill it is to have you on my cookbook podcast, because I've lived in the West Village since 1996, and my husband and I are raising our son in the neighborhood, and it is truly our home. There is something special about the West Village. I think it's the combination of the creatives that are drawn here. The winding streets with the towering trees, many of which are cobblestone and the 19th century architecture, which all makes for a picturesque movie set feel. Now, add in your restaurants, which are mere blocks from each other. I Sodi, Buvette, Bar Pisellino, most recently the Commerce Inn. And what we are here to talk about today, Via Carota, an old world Italian slice of heaven on Grove Street, between 7th Avenue and Bleecker in the West Village, New York City. Jody, would you please read the first few sentences under meeting on Christopher Street?

Jody Williams:               My pleasure, Suzy. Meeting on Christopher street. The first time I met Rita Sodi was in the spring of 2008. Her restaurant I Sodi, had been open for a month or two, and I was lucky enough to find myself seated at the bar for a late solo dinner. I ordered her baccelli di fave and a risotto di asparagi from a small handwritten menu. 12 seats away was the chef and owner herself enjoying a plate of carciofi fritti and a negroni. Little did I know that one day we'd marry and would work side by side in our neighborhood restaurants.

Suzy Chase:                   So you ate at I Sodi about five more times before you worked up the courage to introduce yourself with a couple of pints of perfectly ripe Tristar strawberries from the market. You hung out in the kitchen with Rita and that brought you right back to your days, learning how to cook in Reggio Emelia. It's like that was a moment, a turning point for both of you.

Jody Williams:               That's the story, trying to get to know Rita and just being in awe of this little Italian, so true in every sense and this personality in the kitchen, that was my goal. I think I succeeded.

Rita Sodi:                      You did, Jody. You did.

Suzy Chase:                   So you want Via Carota to transport us to another place in time. Talk about how the restaurant was inspired by the 17th century villa in the hills of Florence, which was home for you. Jody, can you talk about how Via Carota is the offspring for both of your different approaches and personalities?

Jody Williams:               The real Via Carota in Bagno a Ripoli inspired Grove Street, not in any one way, just everything, design to food, to the tone, to the spirit. So just to touch on some of the design part, we had a table in front of us and on that table was one thing that started the design chain and it was the kitchen door knocker, big, heavy brass with this shape and it looked 400 years old. And from that we began adding in things that we liked to create the feel and the look of Via Carota. Those chairs with the little back pocket menu were chapel chairs actually out of England. Those are originally from Rita's home, not all of them, we had to source most of them from London. But little things like that came together. Things from Rita's mother's kitchen as well are in the dining room and that's the heart and soul. And then we just try to get out of the way and create a place that's familiar and comforting.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah, where we love to be. You walk in Via Carota and you feel home.

Jody Williams:               It's not perfect. I mean, we were actually moving. We live in the West Village too, and we were moving and building and cooking. And Rita gave me this beautiful bicycle from Italy and we didn't have room for it when we were moving, so we just left it in the restaurant. And so many years later, it's still there and it looks great. It wasn't so planned, it just happens, you put something here, you have an old table, you use what you have, you step back, you look at it and we ask, "How do we feel?" And then we go to the next and we go onto the next. And then, "How does it function?" As chefs who work in restaurants and know how people work in restaurants, that's also important. But basically capturing that spirit, standing at the original Via Carota and looking out over the low hills and you can see the, what is it? The tower, the Piazza Signori-

Rita Sodi:                      Signoria.

Jody Williams:               And yeah, we can tell who really speaks Italian here, right? So it's a little bit of everything. Basically, I was working really hard at Buvette and Rita was working really hard at I Sodi and we pop out of our kitchens and we say, "Gee, if we want to see each other, we probably should open up a restaurant together." And we looked down the block and smiled and said, "Why not? Take the challenge." So a little bit ignorance is bliss.

Suzy Chase:                   So talk about how Via Carota is the offspring for both of your different approaches and personalities, because you're two very different people.

Rita Sodi:                      Yes, we are very different.

Jody Williams:               Yeah, we're different. In a good way. I think we compliment each other. We have a lot in common work ethic and the sensibilities are all aligned. But our characters are totally different.

Rita Sodi:                      I like to weigh everything, have everything front of me and repeat myself all the time in my recipe and everything. Jody is much more spontaneous and I don't think you do the same recipe two times.

Jody Williams:               Yeah, this is true.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               Yeah, Rita is really precise and rules. And she comes with this Italian culture. "Well, that is like that. This is cacio Pepe, no, no."

Rita Sodi:                      You cannot change it.

Jody Williams:               You cannot change it. And I come in as an outsider and I lived in Italy for almost six years and worked and never came back to the States. And I have a more regional sense, but yeah, I'm a mess.

Rita Sodi:                      No, it's not true.

Jody Williams:               But we get to the same ends.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah, it's where we compliment each other. So because we add to each other, we put together stuff that I will not do it and Jody will not do it, that I think is the magic thing of Via Carota.

Jody Williams:               Yeah. I mean, working on this svizzerina, the famous hand chopped steak, that's seared with Rosemary and garlic confit. We went through... Of course, I said, "Let's try it with a piece of focaccia." Didn't sit right. There's this verbal tradition in cooking, we don't write down a lot. That this cookbook exists is, thank you, Anna Koval. It's this fluid push and pull. The next version of the svizzerina was what? I had caramelized onions.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah, yeah.

Jody Williams:               Or I had Cipollini onions.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               And it was good and Rita was nice, but no. And we'd take away and we'd take away and here's the thing, we'd take away until you can't take away anymore. And the dish is done and that's our comping ground. And that's the simplicity of the recipes, the cookbook, but also too, the whole kitchen of Via Carota

Suzy Chase:                   Do you think this cookbook came about, because your guests ask you if they can get the recipe or how you made that?

Jody Williams:               I mean, people ask for cocktail recipes, Negroni recipes.

Rita Sodi:                      Zabaione.

Jody Williams:               Zabaione or the biscotti, svizzerina.

Jody Williams:               And of course, the green salad. The cookbook came about also I think, as a way to put everything together, hopefully to share more than recipes. Hopefully, this book is a little piece of the heart and soul of-

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               What happens there.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah, tell a little bit more about us to people and why Via Carota is there.

Suzy Chase:                   Well, speaking of the green salad, as much as I would like to talk about pasta, I have to bring that up. It's your gorgeous insalata verde. And you say your objective was to create the quintessential green salad. Could you describe it?

Jody Williams:               On every table at every table, at every meal, there should be a green salad. Or it could be a bowl of chicory sometimes or another salad, but basically that green salad. And it was always on our table, so usually at home, we spread it out on a platter and eat it by hand. But for the restaurant, we put it in a bowl and it's big, because we imagine you're going to share it. We imagine you're going to share everything when you sit down.

                                    But the thing about side salads insalata verde, contorni, which is the word for the side dishes, we always felt that was the best part of the meal that got relegated to a tiny corner of a menu and didn't have enough thought and care. So we flipped that, freed it and put it in the middle and the heart of our menu. That's why there's 20 vegetable dishes there and there's no contorni, because that's basically how we always wanted to eat when we'd go out. And we went this way and that's why the green salad is a little bit more than a green salad. It became this big, beautiful, you see it, you want to just rest on it. It's like a big green pillow and it takes a lot of care actually, to wash and trim and curate salad. Simple things have to be done well, hopefully we get it right.

Suzy Chase:                   It's a work of art. And if you look around the restaurant, everyone has one on their table. I want to talk about the vinegarette. I could literally drink that viniagrette. It's simple yet so complex. What is the key to that?

Rita Sodi:                      Take of vinegar, but is not too strong and the olive oil, and put everything together and it give a flavor, but not kill the ingredients. So it's a little bit of everything, the balance I think of the ingredients, it's the key of the dressing.

Jody Williams:               And when you take a teaspoon of the viniagrette and you stir it up and then you've got the shallots and the mustard seed and everything, the fresh thyme in it, and you taste that, it should be absolutely soft and pleasurable on your mouth. No hint of piercing vinegar, no wincing. So all our vinegarettes are soft, so that they're actually really pleasurable when they're in your mouth and they're gentle on the leaves of salad. We really love vinegar and lemon juice, but we keep it moderate, so it doesn't really, what we think, ruins a good viniagrette.

Suzy Chase:                   Rita, is there something nostalgic and a bit melancholy for you that you're the only one from your family who still makes pasta?

Rita Sodi:                      No, I'm proud of that and I'm prouder to take my mother with me every day and working in the restaurant I smell and taste and everything. It's all my memory, everything I grew up with, it's part of my, I would say, DNA, so that's how I have my memory.

Suzy Chase:                   The New Yorker called Via Carota New York's most perfect restaurant and it's in homage to your mother. Rita and Jody, can you tell the story of Rita's mom's cutting board and mezzaluna and how it symbolized everything for you?

Jody Williams:               It was June.

Rita Sodi:                      Early June, yeah.

Jody Williams:               Early June years ago, 2010.

Rita Sodi:                      2010.

Jody Williams:               2010. Thanks. And Rita's mother had passed away and we flew to Cavallina. The whole family was there and we went into her mother's kitchen. The whole family was planning the dinner that we'd cook that evening. And butchers from the neighborhood were dropping off meat. And your sister was in charge of doing the big fritto misto. And you were doing all the pastas and meat. And when we got to Rita's mother's kitchen, it was as though she had just been there. And the wooden cutting board, that was probably the size of this cookbook that we have now, was stained with parsley and green.

                                    And there was a groove in it from the work that the mezzaluna had done over the years. And this groove was probably half an inch deep. And it's so impressive when cooking tools become worn and you sharpen your knife so many times that the blade is half the size, there's this preciousness, there's this patina of life. It makes such an impression on me to see the work in this kitchen. The tiny little pot holders that her hands have used over the years on that oven that were handmade. Rita said, the one thing that she wanted was that cutting board.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah, it's the only thing I took with me.

Jody Williams:               And the mezzaluna, which are in the restaurant. And that's a keystone for us of just respect of staying at it and doing things. And being a mom is such hard work and being in a kitchen and being responsible for people and feeding them and how you feed them. That's what we pick up from that.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               But it was a beautiful and sad moment. And for me as an American to be in the middle of this family and to be in the kitchen and wanting to help. And there was a huge joy to when everybody came together at the same time, it was really amazing. And those are the moments where I really learned how to cook

Suzy Chase:                   In the cookbook you focus in on the seasons. And in September you start to plan the Fall menu for Via Carota. I just adore risotto in the Fall. Can you describe your recipe for risotto zucca and radicchio on page 224?

Jody Williams:               Yeah, the risotto zucca and radicchio?

Suzy Chase:                   Yeah.

Jody Williams:               This is actually a risotto, I used to make a lot in Reggio Emelia, at Caffè Arti e Mestieri. And I love this, not only because of the bright orange color and the deep purple of the radicchio, but also the sweet and the bitter flavors that come together. And then the richness of Parmesan cheese that's stirred into it stirring and stirring your risotto. We run this as a special in the Fall.

Suzy Chase:                   I think I've heard you talk about 16 bubbles on the surface. Does that mean it's ready to add the butter?

                                    I don't even know where I heard that.

Jody Williams:               No, it's true. I was what they call an aiuto cuoco so I was like kitchen help, that was my document, my labor documents in Italy. So I was in a lot of kitchens and in a kitchen in Rome, this older man would instruct me when the risotto was ready and to be pulled off the stove and to add butter. And he said, "Look for the 16 bucce." Right?

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               Now, my Italian has always been so bad, I hope I got that right. But it seems to work, when you get those bubbles bursting on the top. And it happens in polenta too, which is dangerous, because you got to stand back and not get splattered. But the risotto you'll get these 16 bucce or as many-

Rita Sodi:                      Bubble.

Jody Williams:               Yeah, the little bubbles popping up. And somehow the liquid, it means the liquids cooked out of the risotto enough that you can proceed to the next.

Suzy Chase:                   So Rita, what are a couple of the recipes that really remind you of your mother, that you serve at the restaurant and are in the cookbook?

Rita Sodi:                      More or less, all the pasta and the svizzerina. I don't know where the word's coming from, I don't think the new generation knows about the word. But there was this way that when you don't want to eat meat, when you're little and my mother was like, "Oh, come on, I'll give you a svizzerina. I'll make you a svizzerina." So every time I hear the name svizzerina that is coming from my mind this one. Another one that it was very often in the table, where we put the little bread there, then normally you make the batter for the rabbit. And also you always have a little batter leftover and you take your piece bread, you put there and you add to the dish.

Jody Williams:               So you're talking about the rosemary fried rabbit.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               That's one of my favorite dishes and Rita's family had a lot of help on the farm or anything at one point. So her mother would spontaneously have to do lunch, I heard from five to 20 people. So if they had a couple rabbits to fry and a lot of people showed up, she would fry pieces of bread in with the rabbit to extend the meal. And it happens to be one of the best parts of the fried rabbit.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               You have the leg, you have the loin and then there's this what? This fried bread? Think savory French toast with this rosemary and fennel.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               Fennel pollen.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               That's one of my favorites.

Suzy Chase:                   Now, when you sit down at the restaurant, what is your go-to dish and drink?

Rita Sodi:                      Start with the negroni. Artichoke salad of course. We talk about green salad that we part of the meal always. And depends from the day, will be branzino.

                                    One pasta and I would say sometime it is sure, yeah, panna cotta.

Jody Williams:               Basically green salad, either svizzerina or the branzino or grilled chicken. Lemon risotto if it's a lunch, that's on a cut and paste repeat. That's what we're eating. But also I have to admit family meal, I will eat bowls and plates of the family meal over there.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah, that's true.

Suzy Chase:                   So now to my segment called my favorite herb or spice, where you tell us what fresh herb or spice you use the most in your kitchen and why?

Jody Williams:               Well, if it's summer, my herb is basil. Can't wait for the pesto and the basil, tomatoes or basil in watermelon salad. Or if it's in the Fall and the winter, rosemary and my-

Rita Sodi:                      Sage.

Jody Williams:               Oh yeah, your sage.

Rita Sodi:                      Sage, rosemary.

Jody Williams:               Yeah. My spice is ground fennel seed into salt, on fish or pork or chicken, on some vegetables. Your spice would be black pepper.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah, my spice.

Jody Williams:               We have a real lean pantry.

Rita Sodi:                      Yeah.

Jody Williams:               You know what I mean? I love other things too, but I guess these are what we use more and they're really tools in our kitchen.

Suzy Chase:                   So where can we find you on the web, social media and in New York City.

Jody Williams:               You can find us on our Instagram, which is Via Carota. Our website is viacarota.com. And we're somewhere on Grove Street, either at Via Carota or around the corner at I Sodi on Christopher, Buvette up and down the block.

                                    Yeah, or just hanging out in the neighborhood.

Suzy Chase:                   Some people finish each other's sentences and you finish each other's dishes. I can't thank you enough for coming on Cookery by the Book podcast.

                                    Thank you for having us, Suzy, real delight.

Rita Sodi:                      Thank you so much.

Outro:                          Follow Cookery by the Book on Instagram. And thanks for listening to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book.

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